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Knowing God Pt. 2 – The Union Between Father and SoN

SPEAKERS

Ronnie Bincer, Larry McKnight, Richard Kramer, Jeremy Skinner, Janet Estrada

 

Larry McKnight 

Last week, we got through chapter 13, 14 and 15. In what I wanted to do about just reading out a John and letting that wash over us. And I know it’s a little bit different. How many of you that were here last week or saw it? Was it a positive experience? Okay good. So, for those that are that are new this time, either online or up here, let that be an encouragement to you. I think that it is a positive experience. And, you know, sometimes I’m a studier and thinker and a dissector of stuff in the Bible. And I think sometimes it’s easy to lose track of the fact that there’s just a sheer power in, in the scriptures to reveal stuff. And I think the power some of its probably just in the words itself. Because there are amazing words, you know, there are things that I read from people that I respect, like CS Lewis, and, and, you know, founding documents for our country and stuff, they have a power, just words, but and so I think there’s some of that in Scripture for sure, the portrait of it or whatever. But the thing that makes the scripture so unique is that the functional author of it lives in you and is willing to consult you in your reading. And the more you get aware of that, the more you realize that there’s absolutely nothing that cannot be taught.  We’re going to see today in the section where we’re reading, that that’s one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit to take everything that Jesus has, and make it known to you. And then Christ Jesus linked it back to the fact that everything the Father has been given to Jesus. So, his repertoire, and what would you call it resource library of the Holy Spirit is pretty vast. So anyway, Father, we thank you for the power of your word. We thank you for this opportunity. And we want to give ourselves to understand this and to be washed as your bride.  To be breathed on, as your disciples and to be empowered, stirred the level of our soul and our spirit, our heart and our mind. So, we look eagerly forward to doing this.  I’m going to review what we did last week, briefly. And for those of you that know me and have been here a long time, briefly makes you laugh.  So, we’ll be brief. So, what we’re actually looking at, if you guys remember is we were looking through here and highlighting the amazing union between the Father and his Son. And one of the initial questions that we started with, is what does it say in John 17? Why did Jesus say, this is eternal life to know you talking to his father, the only true God and Jesus whom you’ve sent? And so why would it? Why would it be both? I had an uncle named Denny, and one of Denny statements in his life, was that he didn’t want to go through a middleman, meaning Jesus, he wanted to go straight to the top dog, meaning God. And so that was super concerning to me as a young preacher. I’m a little less concerned about it now. Because they’re one.  And I know there’s been a big emphasis and a lot of our theology is about, do we pray in this name? Or do we pray to the to this person that training from this person? Is it legitimate even to pray to the Holy Spirit for anything? Or is the Holy Spirit only, you know, that I think that this will help us get beyond trying to create a more faithful discipleship in our lives, by those kinds of details, when in fact, the whole thing’s relational. It’s about that. So, John 13, we saw this one, before the feasts of the Passover, Jesus, knowing that his hour had come, that he would depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own, who were in the world, he loved them to the end. That is such a tender statement, I can’t hardly read it. That’s the introduction to the last gathering. That is the narrating, the Holy Spirit narrated introduction to the last gathering that Jesus had with his disciples before he was arrested and crucified. Knowing that his hour had come, and he would depart out of the world, to the Father, having loved his own, who were in the world, he loved them to the end. I don’t have any commentary about that. I just think it’s just beautiful beyond like, words, he loved them to the end. I just think somehow it gives us permission. To extravagantly know that we’re loved. I’m certainly feels that way about us. Truly, truly, I say to you, here receives, whomever I send, receives me. And he who receives me receives him who sent me a little bit later. This is in John 13. A little bit later, Jesus talks about that, I’m going to, you know, as father and he’s going to send the Holy Spirit and then he also because of the oneness, because what we learn here and how he begins to reveal the oneness, he ends up saying, and then I’m going to send him. So, for sure, one that he sends I send is the Holy Spirit. So, whoever receives whomever I send, receives me. So, when you’re sitting there and you’re giving the Holy Spirit place, to bring life out of the Scripture to you, you’re receiving Jesus. We’ve reduced receiving Jesus into a cat, which call it cathartic event on the calendar. And I’m glad that we do that I did that. But your opportunity to receive Jesus isn’t marked on a calendar. It’s not a past interaction. It’s a present reality. And he who receives me receives him who sent me the father is, I think it would be safe to say, much more of a mystery to most Christians than is either the spirit or the son. But he need not be. It’s only because we have divorced, the revelation of the Father from the person of Jesus, that we persist in that, Paul said, and we’ll see that in a second. This is where it was. If you Thomas had known me, you would have known my Father also. That’s what I mean. Allow your perception of Jesus, allow the work that the Holy Spirit does in our lives and your heart, my heart, to make room for Jesus, allow that to be an ever-ongoing introduction and nurturing of your relationship with the Father. Make sense? Cause look what happens when we do it. Thomas said there are we don’t know where you’re going. We don’t know the way he says, yes, you do know. And the number this is that sort of more famous passage out John, where he says, because I’m the way the truth and life. But then he goes this way, says this, he says, from now on, you know him, and have seen him. And I just want to point out to you, that the voice that says, when you doubt it, Greg, know, you know him, it’s the same voice that said, into the darkness, let there be light. And light was we also underestimate. I wish I knew the woman that was caught in adultery and presented for Jesus in the tabernacle, because I think she would be a beautiful, humble, wonderful, Holy Spirit. Because Jesus told her, go and sin no more.  I think that’s incredible. There’s power in this. And it’s stated right here. No, Thomas, remember what Thomas said earlier, somebody pointed it out, I think, was it Thomas, the one they said that said, I’m not going to believe him. Oh, we talked about that Tuesday. I’m not going to believe it unless I can stick my fingers in his hands. And my hand in his side, Jesus was fine to accommodate that. But honestly, that display is not why Thomas ended up believing. He believed because of his encounter with the presence of the Lord. It’s pretty cool. And then Thomas went on to do great things. To fill up. He said, he who has seen me has seen the Father, believe me that I am in the Father and the Father’s in me. And this is the passage that starts, in my understanding and emotionally, I guess, it starts revving up in me. The almost incomprehensible degree to which the Father and Jesus are one.  Oneness is something that we’re not accustomed to even our most intimate relationships, husbands or wives, family members, the body of Christ, I still think we always sort of intellectually argue in from distinction, the union. And this is the beauty of what’s being revealed here is that the redemptive process, life itself, creation, everything did not come from separation, ever. It came from union, out of the union of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, out of the love relationship between the father and the son in the spirit, out of the facilitation of that honor and love by the Spirit. Came everything. Union is extraordinary. It’s wonderful. It is our most fundamental markers of DNA and spirit and all that. That’s why we all look alike. Sort of. That’s why it’s so difficult today, to have people. rightfully acknowledging, but then artificially propping up our differences. It would be so easy. So easy if we would just humble ourselves to talk about our similarities, because they come from one source. Jesus answered and said to him, this is Judas not Iscariot. How would you like to have a name that in the Bible if you had to be called not somebody? That’d be true of women. Larry, not Larry Jackson, but the other Larry. Or worse yet, somebody else, Larry, not Larry McKnight. So that’s the distinction you get Larry, Jesus answered and said to him, Judas Iscariot, if anyone loves me, he will keep my word. Now, if that scripture, if you stop preaching there, which I did a long period of time as a Baptist and Assemblies of God guy, you would miss a very remarkable part of the rest of that sentence, which is, and my Father will love him. And we will come to him and make Our abode with him. First, how many of you spent any time in your Christian life, not conscious of the fact that the Father Himself, along with Jesus, and the Spirit, which do you say we do, lives in you that the Father God lives in you? Me, me, I always saw this thing that was going on with me and Jesus, it was good. And it would accrue to the father’s favor at some point in time. But from before the Gospel story got crystallized at the at the death, resurrection, Jesus, this is what he said, if anyone loves me, he will keep my word. And my Father will love him. And we will come to him and make Our abode with him. I think it’s extraordinary. So that’s one of the things we learned. Chapter 15, we moved along, and I just summed it up with this first and 15. I no longer call you servants, I have called you friends. Now, he explained why. And it drove right back to two things that are super critical, that the whole thing is relational. And the whole thing is about first before it’s about our relationship with God, or even his with us, it’s about Jesus relationship with his father, look at this, I no longer call you servants have called you friends for all things that I have heard from my father. What is it that Jesus has shared with you?  Nothing more. And nothing less than what has transpired, has set were transferred, no, anyway, gone back and forth between him and his father, in an eternal concept. That is, what Jesus has given us. his relationship with his father, for all things that I have heard from my father, I have made known to you, if we would go back to another spot, and John 14, which I didn’t put up there as a highlight. It’s all a highlight. But Jesus said, these words are not my own. They’re the words that the Father, they’re the words that the Father gave, that the Father doing his work in me. So, when you hear a word of Jesus, that his Father God, doing His will, working his will, into you, and through you, or around you, or whatever. So, all things you did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit. Alright, so first of all, being appointed by Jesus to go and bear fruit is like being the woman caught in adultery presented at the temple and being told to go and sin no more. You will, or you will not be depending on the case, fruit bearing is not a responsibility. It is a byproduct of our appointment. In Christ. We probably don’t recognize it. I don’t see Dave on. But at breakfast, we had a really wonderful breakfast and Dave Doherty told a story. And I’ll tell it in 30 seconds without it without any of the good details. But one of the guys he lives with was working on a vehicle. And he has a helper, and Dave doesn’t like the helper. And he was kind of (thinks ug) so he goes, he stepped up and he says, I’m going to go to store and get some lunch. But he said, in my mind, I thought, but I’m not going to get any for you because you’re a jerk. And so, he goes, and by the time he got to the wherever he was going, that when it wasn’t a source of fast-food restaurant. He just found himself ordering to have everything for them. And then he found himself experiencing an entirely different internal perspective of the guy that irritated him. And then he found himself realizing, oh, my god, you’re loving him through me. And now I love it was extra that’s close. So now it’s close to the store. That’s close the store. So, when you read, I chose you and appointed you. Now you could say, well, I was just to the disciples. You can say that if you want. But if you think Jesus hasn’t chosen and appointed you, you should talk to me after church. Because he has, he has and we’ll get to that and 17 I don’t talk to feeling, going bear fruit that we’re going to bear fruit and that your fruit would remain. So, whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you there we go back again. Now we have been invited into this intimacy, and this interdependence. That’s the word I was talking about. interdependence between the Son and the father. Our fruit bearing not only accrues to us, but it brings glory to the Father, our fruit bearing is designed to pull on the utter willingness of the Father, to give the son everything. And the sons desire to glorify the father in every way. In the context of this, the outside manifestations were that a successful ministry trip was that a successful donation was that a successful that’s not the issue at all. Honestly, if we believe this, and if we could get this in our heart, we would, through this holiday, as we began to reflect back, I’m not saying there wouldn’t be an occasion for Lord, forgive me or Lord, I’m sorry. But we would also probably go, oh, my goodness, Lord, I thought that was a failure. And seeing it through your eyes, I’m not sure it was as amazing. So that whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he may give you.  Anyway, here’s my points of review. Jesus was and is radically loved by the Father. Never lose sight of that. That was the repeated, over, and over, driven home, drummed up, put in front of the disciples. I and the father are one, I and the father are one, I love the Father, the Father loves me. They’re one, second, the Father sent Jesus. And Jesus came to reveal one love for us.  If you don’t get anything else out of the Gospel story, you can be absolutely plugged in and have the resources to grow in your assurance the rest of your life by just knowing that, that the love that is shared between the father and son is the love that you’re loved with. Isolated one day I was reading at the end of John 17. And it says, Wow, the same love that you loved Jesus with, you love me with, and I felt like God laughed felt like his father talking to me felt like he laughed, and he goes, what other love would I use? It’s the only one I’ve got, like, oh, wow, wow. Because I don’t think of it, I thought that I was another kind of love, you know, a little diluted love, a little love with less than full strength 100 proof. The third thing that I want us to remember from what we’ve looked at in first three chapters is that every encounter with Jesus is an encounter with our Father, everyone. I don’t mean just every biblical encounter, I mean, every encounter that you have, is an encounter with that majestic throne, surrounded, Rainbow covered, cherubim, surrounded, glorious father, Heavenly Father, that paints the images that we sing in Revelation Song and, and all of the other stuff, all that big glory, everything extraordinary that you see when we take an ascension, and emerge out of the sea glass which we’ve done some. Walk across that and see these steps to the throne and every image that the Lord reveals to try to help us understand the glory that he is sharing with us. In the Father, you are in contact with and have encountered every time you have an encounter with Jesus every time. You cannot overestimate how much they’re one and how much Jesus acts under the impetus of the Father’s love for you. Never doubt that. So that’s the review. Now, let’s get to chapter 16.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

Okay, so the initial question was, why does it say this is eternal life that you may know the father and the son whom he sent? Could that be Said another way that you may know that, that you may know me and me? It could be kind of like love love.

 

Larry McKnight 

Yeah, I think so. I do. So, we’re really pushing the idea that it’s one, I still don’t know, because I have this questioning idea in my head. Why did he say it that way? But what I’m getting out of what we’re saying so far is that it’s me, me. Yeah. I think we’re at liberty to play with the language to try to bring shape to our own understanding. I know that, you know, if you just tweet that that would be like bad because everybody would think, Oh, my God, what a heretic or something. But from the day that Adam turned away and hid, because he was afraid of a god, he had absolutely no experience being afraid of, and no reason to be afraid of God faced this incredible challenge of every time he stepped near man. He terrified them. And they would turn. And so, it was one step after another incremental things, you know, signs in the heaven. offerings, peace offerings. Yeah. So, I think God’s not taken back, Ronnie, if you were to think that way. And, and then look and look and look and look, you know, Tim, and I had some experiences early in our ascension, shared ascension experiences where the Father was, you know, it felt kind of strange thinking about seeing the Father. But then the moment that we kind of went, well, why would it be strange, because when we’ve seen you, we’ve seen the Father, we will start seeing the father a little bit, you know, and not all the time and, and we’re not putting our images out there is definitive. But yes, I think so.  All right, John chapter 16.  This is John chapter 16. Every time you come to a highlight, see it there? There’s not too many of them. But there’s some you need to pause because I’m going to have something on screen. Okay. So, go ahead and sit down, get comfortable, get the mic there so everybody can hear you. I’ll sit down. And we will read the New American Standard. So, let me get mine open. So, I can follow along. And actually, this is a really old version of the New American Standard.

 

Janet Estrada 

These things I have spoken to you, that you may be kept from stumbling. They will make you outcast from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.  And those things they will do because they have not known the father or me.

 

Larry McKnight 

Okay, how many reasons can you think that cause people to do beastly, awful things. We tend to think everything. And then if you happen to have a psychological background, you can even go more. What Jesus is saying here is that the persecution that is coming, the rejection, the anger, the hostility, here’s why it exists. They have not known the Father or me. So, this idea of eternal life is composed of knowing the two of them, is shadowed, literally, in the corruption and in the destruction. So, when I think about what’s going on in our streets, with the rioting, and the stuff with the cops, if you boil it all down, it’s this. They don’t know, Jesus or the Father. And if we use that, to feel superior or judgmental, we are missing the opportunity. Because I don’t have all the complicated answers. Jeremy, we’re talking with some folk, and there’s a whole list I’m sure of things. We’re having some racial, very positive racial discussions with some other people online, that Jeremy got involved in. And there are a lot of details. But those details would fall into their proper perspective. If this were to increase, and I’m not saying that the people we’re talking to are Christians and they don’t know but this is the root of confusion. This is the root of rebellion. This is the root of anarchy. This is the root of hatred. This is here.

 

Richard Kramer 

And now you’re bringing this scripture into today.  But when he spoke this he was speaking about. I’m assuming 70 ad.

 

Larry McKnight 

I wouldn’t think this, I would think that he was that it carried beyond that era, out to, for instance, the persecution that they that Thomas faced when he went into the eastern lands, most of these guys ended up being martyred. And none of them died in Jerusalem in 70. AD. So I would think it would be. you know, the Romans and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. In other words, I would apply this, I would see this apply independently. Yeah.

 

Janet Estrada 

Okay. But these things I have spoken to you that when they’re our comms, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things, I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you. But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of it. And none of you asks me, where are you going, but because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart, but I tell you the truth, it is your advantage, it is to your advantage that I go away for I do not go away, the helpers shall come in you come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you

 

Larry McKnight 

That’s the place where I mentioned earlier, when we look at that, that if you receive the one, I sent, so Jesus is right there as deeply interwoven with God, the Holy Spirit, as he is with the Father, he is in the spirit, the spirits, and, you know, it’s beyond our understanding, I understand that, but it isn’t beyond our believing. And it isn’t the under declaring. And that’s why, Ronnie, it’s okay to, to pursue it with, with different illustrations in different language. You know, I, in my own teaching about the oneness of the Father, Son, and Spirit. I’m beyond the egg illustration, mostly, you know. But that doesn’t mean it’s not an appropriate illustration at some point in time. In and no matter how brilliant we are, and no matter what language we can conjure up, we’re not going to be able to fully describe it, because we’re talking in finite terms of an infinite reality. But and this is why knowledge about it and talking about it cannot be the end relating to it, being swept into this oneness. That’s what we’re being invited into. Right.

 

Janet Estrada 

And he, when he comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment concerning sin because they do not believe in me. And concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you no longer behold me. And concerning judgment because the ruler of this world has been judged. I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. But when he the spirit of truth comes; He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on his own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak, and he will disclose it to you to what do you what is to come?

 

Larry McKnight 

Okay, hang on a second, okay. Do you see the Oneness there in the spirit? These are not random words that he self generates. This is his intimacy in the Father. And this is his intimacy in and around Jesus. And Jesus is wholly dependent. I know, Sam, that sounds really ridiculous because God knew he wants. But Jesus is wholly dependent on being raised from the dead by the Father. Have you ever wondered why Paul says, and emphasizes that it that God was doing what he was doing in the same power that he raised Jesus from the dead. And then when Paul talks about like a belief formula, he says that we need to believe that God raised Him from the dead. This is just a picture of independence. It’s not a picture of weakness. It’s a picture of interdependence. And the same thing goes here with the Holy Spirit. All that the Holy Spirit’s bringing to mind all the conviction he brings is about belief in Jesus. I’ve said a lot that the gospel is not primarily about sin. But I would resend that position if people understood that sin was about believing in Jesus or not. Because it could be all about sin if this was your definition. But it isn’t. It isn’t. Unfortunately, in our culture, sin is all about examining our behavior and the shortfalls of it. Belief in Jesus is the issue. Now here’s the one that’s there.

 

Janet Estrada 

He shall glorify me for he shall take of Mine and shall disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are mine. Therefore, I said that he takes up mine and will disclose it to you.

 

Larry McKnight 

All right. What an amazing qualifier. The Holy Spirit’s going to disclose what Jesus has to us. And then he, he drives at home by saying all things a father has her mind. That incredible. On limited resource, we’re talking here, the God of all creation. We’re talking the Ancient of Days, we’re talking God.

 

Janet Estrada 

A little while he and you will no longer behold me. And again, a little while you will see me. Some of his disciples therefore said to one another, what is this thing he’s telling us a little while and you will not be holding me and again a little while and you will see me? And because I go to the Father. So, they were saying, what is this that he says a little while we do not know what he is talking about? Jesus knew that they wish to question him. And he said to them, are you deliberating together about this, that I said a little while and you will not be holding me and again a little while, and you will see me. Truly, truly I say to you, that you will never that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice, you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned to joy. Whenever a woman is in travail, she has sorrow. Because her hour has come but when she gives birth to the child, she remembers the anguish no more for joy that a child has been born into the world. Therefore, you too now have sorrow, but I will say I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and no one takes your joy away from you.  And in that day, you will ask me no question, truly, truly I say to you, if you shall ask the Father, anything for anything, he will give it to you in my name.  Until now, you have asked for nothing, my name in my name and ask. So, ask and you receive that your joy may be made full.

 

Larry McKnight 

So, this is Jesus, illustrating in my heart, illustrating the oneness of purpose with the Father. And so, all those arguments that I alluded to earlier, were supposed to pray to the Father in Jesus name are we supposed to, that’s not really the way to analyze this way to analyze this is the Father loves you.

 

Janet Estrada 

These things I have spoken to you in figurative language, an hour is coming when I will speak no more to you in figurative language, but I will, but will tell you plainly of the Father. In that day, you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I request that I will request the father on your behalf.  For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved me, and have believed that I came forth from the Father. And then 28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.

 

Larry McKnight 

So, look at this in the middle of this. I’m not saying that I’m going to request the father on your behalf. Because the Father Himself loves you. And that’s spectacular. I got to be honest, the next phrase gave me trouble for a lot of my life because it seemed like the Father’s love was conditional. But that’s because I thought of them as separate. In other words, when I imported my view of the distinction between the Father and the Son, and the differences, perhaps in their purposes, and in their perspective and in their understanding, I was importing into oneness, my own inability to see it. And therefore, that opened up in my heart a possibility that this was a problematic verse for me and I needed to preach about it and teach about it in such a way that I didn’t into the character of the father. My motives were good. My basic understanding was foolish. We think a lot about God like that. We think a lot about the scripture that way. I bet you there’s a bunch of judgment related things and wrath related things I know there is because we’ve looked at it, that are, are difficult to understand, because we’re importing into it. distinction separation, that’s not there. Now, the way I see it is this, for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came forth. In other words, the thing that releases our encounter our experience, the sheer rightness of living in the love of the Father is because we love the son. It’s not a condition. It’s a reaction.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

If distinction and separation are not there, why did he say, the father and the son whom he sent.

 

Larry McKnight 

Because of whom he is speaking to, you’re speaking to people like me, who lived most of their life, importing into that distinction. He was delivering the message of eternal life, to a guy who didn’t have sense enough to see that the father was in the son of the son was in the Father.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

So even the very question that we’re asking why he’s, as I say, both is interesting.

 

Larry McKnight 

It shows it shows the desperate condition that we’re in, that prevents us from seeing God as one. And the idea that there’s distinction in him in person or whatever. I know it’s kind of mysterious, but it’s, in one way, it makes them easier to love. As long as you don’t pit him against him.  I guess.

 

Janet Estrada 

It’s because he’s speaking to humans. And yes, how we relate

 

Larry McKnight 

This is how we relate, you know, he also made statements. You know, I speak a great mystery talking about marriage. But the man and wife are one in this in the, the church is one. And then we fight more with ourselves in the church. And I mean, that literally, if you think about one as we fight with ourselves, we’re like super schizophrenia, and self-destructive, because we don’t understand oneness. And this is a challenge for us guys because we’re trying to step out of that. And I don’t like the way the gospel is preached in a lot of ways. Because it is preached based on sin that isn’t about the belief or belief in Jesus, it’s, it’s preached in a divisive way, in a way that seems exclusive. But the more I get to know this, the less permission I have to make those issues. I’ve got to figure out a way around it. And then I think I’m getting to the point, I don’t know. But I think we’re getting to the point where we just simply declare the reality and let the Holy Spirit shame into it. And Jeremy, that was the line on the phone conversation this morning that got cut off, is that I just really want to get all of us to a place where we can declare the truth of the gospel in such a way that without reservation, the Holy Spirit can say, Amen. I’m a father, and son of the gospel, and you all know it. Some of the gospel that has been spoken and probably has been an instrument used by God to get somebody into relationship with Jesus is not a proclamation that the Holy Spirit can save into. If it’s filled with judgment, if it’s filled with all kinds of destructive and condemning wrath. It’s just not so before I talk more on that I’ll be right back in the issue I was trying to get out of, Okay, go ahead. Verse 29, there.

 

Janet Estrada 

His disciples said lo, now you are speaking plainly, and are not using a figure of speech. Now we know that you know all things and have no need for anyone to question you. By this, we believe that you came from God. Jesus answered them, do you now believe?   Behold, an hour is coming and has already come for you to be scattered each to his own home and to leave me alone. And yet I am not alone because the Father is with me.

 

Larry McKnight 

This truth dawned on me through another passage of scripture. And the truth is the ridiculousness of the atonement theory that Jesus took sin on. And the Father because of His Holiness had to turn away from him and withdraw from him. That never happened. That never could have happened. That would have literally undone all of creation because it would have nullified the God in which that creation was held together. But it is an intrinsic part in most of the telling of the gospel. That’s what I was talking about earlier, in the western church, that the most potent thing in the telling of this story, that way, as sin, sin is God, because it controls the behavior of God. Now, I wish that I had come to that conclusion, not on a doctrinal analysis basis out of Second Corinthians chapter five. But out of a relational basis, just listening to Jesus, when hours before he was arrested, and only a day before he was crucified and hanging on the cross. He said, but I’m not alone. The Father’s with me. No one in all of creation, and no one in Christendom should ever have come to that conclusion. Because to do so is to ignore this statement. Right there. I am not alone. Father’s with me.

 

Janet Estrada

So, 33, these things I’ve spoken to you that in me You may have peace in the world, you will have tribulation, but take courage, I have overcome the world.

 

Larry McKnight 

So, I didn’t highlight that. But we would be foolish not to think about a little bit. God, why, what did I do? I’m in an ongoing conversation with some people that are trying or that sort of instinctively attribute trouble to judgment from God. And I’m just trying to say, just try to not do that. And honestly, I’ve got them now asking me so is it just because stuff happens? And I go, Yes, exactly. Because stuff happens. Right? Here it is. Right? Here it is. And keep in mind this is the farewell preparation for the disciples to face. The most gross injustice that has ever been perpetrated in the face of the earth. men killed their Creator. That’s not like shooting a cop. That’s not like stealing my house from me with a fake title transfer. Those are despicable. That’s not like robbing some senior couple of their life savings through some internet scam. Those are horrible. I think they should be punished. But this is preparing them to endure a season among men where they killed their Creator. deicide that’s pretty powerful.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

That’s a reminder of the thing when you read something and it says Jesus says Be a good cheer for, I’ve overcome the world and your first response is well, that’s good for you but what about me?

 

Larry McKnight 

Oh, that’s actually a very good comment. Because if we can learn the lesson of this oneness, and we’re not there in 17 yet you didn’t get to 16 we just take some time it when we get to 17, we’re going to realize you know at the end it’s Jesus says Father that they know that you sent me and we’re one is there one and you love them with the same love you love me. That kind of thought needs will eventually just be purged from our mind the capacity. I I share that with you though because I actually said it shamefully. I remember saying it and being deadly sincere about it, I wasn’t trying to be flippant. I was reading that passage scripture. And I go Lord, that’s good for you. But so, what?

 

Ronnie Bincer 

And then we’ve come to the point of realizing he is in me so any of that overcoming this that he’s got? Yeah, I got. The way I like to package it. That’s what I think we see is that when Jesus moves in my heart and so this is me playing with language like you, we’re doing the me thing. Okay, so Jesus, the Holy Spirit. were made room in my heart for you to come into me and you brought your stuff.  You decorated, you have your books on the shelf, you have all your stuff, your phone, and your address book. Everything that you have all this stuff, everything the Father has he’s given to me. Holy Spirit’s going to bring this to you. Jesus presence in you is not just some sort of perfunctory fact. I don’t think I think we have permission to believe it, literally. And I think we have permission to embellish the thought of it in our mind with actual illustrations. Thanks, Janet for reading.  I always like to keep in my mind that there was a time in all pious sincerity, which now I realized was ignorance, and so whatever importance I said, Jesus, that’s great for you. But so what?  That’s just stunning, that’s just stunning, stunning arrogance. And I’ve been through several Rosh Hashanah and had that look back several times, and now it’s all Okay, thank you, Jesus, in Christ is the beauty of what we’re a part of. So, this is eternal life, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus whom you sent, and I came up with some questions. We’re not going to go through them tonight because it’s already after 8, but here’s two of them. And then I want you guys to do it. So Zoomers, I’ve, I’ve kind of just talked and you guys have just been sitting there. But we’re going to come back next week, and we’re going to tackle John 17. Because there are some extraordinary, extraordinary realities based on the ability to hear this union and the ability to hear it with us. Does Jesus saying that no one comes to the Father except through me, if we can think about union now, does it sound less like some kind of arrogant, Christian exclusive, exclusive ism, and more like an invitation into an undeniable reality? It’s not, he didn’t say that. To go nananananana I’ve got the only way I’ve got the only way. He said it to reveal. I have the only life I am the way that you’re going to live. And then another kind of ways can you see that eternal life isn’t a reward for our behavior, or even our belief? And I think belief is necessary. I don’t really know how I see this. Like, I don’t understand how all three, or one how the Father, Son Holy Spirit one, I also don’t understand how we’re one with them. When we have a tendency to feel so separate, and feel like oh my gosh, you know, I also don’t have a lot of understanding about oneness. But I don’t also know why belief is an absolute necessity, according to the Scripture. And yet the absolute necessity of belief has virtually no bearing on the point of view from God’s side. It’s got to be about something it doesn’t us. We’re going to explore that as we move forward.  Eternal life is a reward for the father and son loving one another. It’s giving us that life drawing us into that love. And we’re excited to share it.

 

Jeremy Skinner 

Yeah, I really appreciate you spend a lot of time on the idea of oneness and just really circling back around. I find a lot of beauty in distinctness myself. And so, I’m wondering if there’s any room in our future explorations for there to be some elements of truth in that too. But I’m sure we’ll get to that over time.

 

Larry McKnight 

So yeah, yeah. I have a little encounter with that. And over the course of like, about a month and a half, two months ago, I literally was in my journal questioning, whether because of my study of the new covenant in the roles of the Father Son in that covenant way the Spirit works in it. I said, Papa, I’m pretty sure I’m thinking about you and Jesus and the Holy Spirit to distinctly and so help me if I’m doing that, because I don’t want to become a try whateverist. You know, and I felt like the Lord said, you are. And, but it wasn’t like, I mean, he knows me, you know, he knows us. He knows what’s going on. And then I said, but look, you can’t really hold it against me. Because if you had, you shouldn’t have come down here with a real face with a big smile, and a beard and walking around with dirt on your feet and stuff like that. It was a wonderful couple of days with the Lord. So yeah, Jeremy, I think that there is a reason for that distinction. And it’s a reason to be celebrated. But think about this. It’s not, the tendency is when you have ideas that are difficult to think about as, as one at the same time. That is a picture of our finiteness it is not a picture of those ideas. And what God can see is oneness, we do first see a separation, but that only reveals the lenses that we’re looking through. And it reveals that there is a transformation that needs to take place in our life. And the Bible alludes to that transformation in such a beautiful way, in first john chapter three, when it does not yet appear, what we shall be. But when he appears, or he is revealed, we shall see Him, and we will be like him, because we will see him as he is. The distinction is spoken of even the prophetic words about the New Jerusalem because it says that God on the throne and the lamb are its light. So, it speaks of a distinction, but one function of illumination. So, there’s other places that the Scripture talks about. So yeah, I don’t think that we’re going to get in trouble over recognizing and honoring the distinction. Because God knows who he’s working with.  All right. Well, Father, I thank you for the power of your word, and Jesus, my goodness, to think of the context of these beautiful words, to think of the context of these amazing revelations and to think of the context of the life that they have, are, they have articulated both to your disciples, and then thank you, thank you, thank you that in the chapter we didn’t get to yet. You said, I don’t only pray for these, but I pray for all of those who believe on me through their word. That means those of us in this room right now. Thank you, that the revelation of your oneness with a father, and the revelation of love that comes through that purpose that comes through that the revelation of the central necessity to believe in you, and in believing in you, believing that you’re in your father, and that you’re in us and that we’re in you, thank you for that. Because Lord, without that baseline, without that central reality, being so clearly exposed in these moments with your disciples and transferred to us through the Scripture, and through your prayers, without that, in our current circumstance, with the racial, and political divisions that are going on in our country, with the almost being forced to take sides, we would be people without hope. But we’re not without hope. Because we are made in your image. And we are invited into your oneness. And so further as we ponder these questions and think about the magnitude of transformation that can take place in our perspective, I pray that as we go on this week, that we will just review the scriptures will think about you and the father being one never, ever, ever in any way shape, or form, being at cross purposes with one another. Everything you did, Jesus was a revelation of the father’s work, everything you wanted Father Jesus did. clarity that comes when we listen to the general revelation scripture, for instance, about adultery. You hate it, it’s wrong.  And yet, the revelation of how you think about those that are caught in it, Jesus showed that and there’s 100 other things in the gospels that do that. So, Father, I thank you Jesus, I thank you Holy Spirit, I think you help us know you and in knowing you, live in the life you’ve invited us into. In Jesus name.

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