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Knowing God Pt. 4: The Cosmos and the Union of Jesus and His FatheR

SPEAKERS

Ronnie Bincer, Larry McKnight, Nancy Coen, Richard Kramer

 

Larry McKnight 

So, we’re going to do a little review. But I had to back up a little bit for review in John chapter 12. And I know we didn’t go there. But this is toward the end of chapter 12. And it sets a context, you will hear some of what Jesus prayed in 17 and talked to the disciples about, but this is all the way back in 12: 44. But Jesus spoke aloud and said, “Whoever has faith in me has faith, not in me, but in Him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who has sent me a memorize this. So, if you see me, you’ve seen the Father.”, and, you know, if you obey or whatever, so this union ID, and that’s what we’ve been studying. For those of you that are new tonight, if you haven’t got to watch the, the Facebook or whatever this union thing is, it’s really a huge deal. We started with a simple question, why is it that you say eternal life is to know you, God, and Jesus whom you sin? And we started just that simple question opened the door to the fact that the union between the Father and the Son is the essence of what Jesus is talking about is the essence of redemption. So, contrast that against that redemption and against that beautiful union in their mind, and you’re in mine, and all that kind of stuff, is the cosmos. Or the thing, Richard, you asked about the world. So here, it says, and whoever sees me sees him who has sent me so this whole redemptive idea, and about dealing with every encounter we have with Jesus is an encounter with Father Son. Keep that in mind. And then Jesus explains himself why he came, I have come as a light into the cosmos, so that everyone who has faith in me not might not remain in darkness. Now, if your mind is like mine it immediately runs to like, the passage in Isaiah, that there’s a great darkness, but Rise and shine, your light is come, I’m the light of the world, you’re the light of the world. He’s delivered us out of the kingdom of darkness, or the domain of darkness into the kingdom of the Sun of His love. And so, this theme, I have come as a light into the cosmos, so that everyone who has faith in me might not remain in darkness is obviously a monstrous thing in the Scriptures, in the revelation of who Jesus is. And not only is it a theme it, probably, literally is the central revelation, because the coming of Jesus as the centerpiece of the gospel is the centerpiece of the New Covenant. It’s the centerpiece of, of what everything is pointed to. And therefore, he said he came, okay, I have come to light into the cosmos, so that everyone who has faith. Now, a little bit later in chapter 12, still it says, if anyone hears my words and does not keep them, right now, you would expect, as important as it is to obey God, if anyone hears my word and doesn’t keep them to have some kind of consequence, right? But look at what is important for Jesus to convey. And this is at 12, before he gets in 13, if you remember, Chapter 12, is when he was in Bethany. And he was back with Lazarus for the first time, after Lazarus resurrection. People were flocking to him and they were flocking to Lazarus, the Pharisees literally, were plotting to kill Lazarus as well, because there’s so many people that were coming. And then Jesus was out, people were gathering, the Greek said, can we see Jesus, and he started, this is where he starts talking about it, if I sent a Man be lifted up, I will drag them into myself. And the father spoke from heaven. And anyway, it was a big deal, right? So, then they go into chapter 13, which will be in a second, but “if anyone hears my word and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I came, not that I might judge the cosmos, but that I might save the cosmos.” So, whatever this thing is, Richard, the world that he’s talking about, you’re in it, you’re out bad, they’re going to eat you, whatever, you know, Jesus came not to judge it, but to save it. Yeah, you can if you wish, it’s a learning process.  But that I might save the cosmos. Now, I know, for many of us, most of our Christian experience, when we think of the word save, we think of, at the biggest scale people, or the elect, or depending where you come from, or we think about saving individuals or being saved. Jesus is thinking about saving the cosmos. And so, it’s going to be important that we understand what the cosmos is. And that’s where I turn to David Bentley Hart for some help. And you can get this out of lexicons and all this kind of stuff, too. I personally think it’s unfortunate that, that the word cosmos is translated so frequently in so many translations as the world. And the reason is, and we’re going to get into this just a little bit. But the reason is because the world carries a lot of interpretive baggage in our culture. For one, we have a concept of the world, you know, you go back several years, they didn’t have a concept of the globe, with other civilizations, everywhere, everything was kind of tight. I’m not saying at the time that Jesus was here, these are the right and because there was Roman Empire who had spread out quite a bit in that area. But we have a concept of the world and sometimes that concept of the world is seeing it from a satellite perspective, you know, on one of the ascensions Michael, I don’t know if Michaels on here, now see his thing. But he has that globe thing that zoom has on it mind. So, we can think of the world that way we can think of the world like the World Bank, you know, that’s an economic system that has fingers everywhere. We think of the world like social cultures, and the geography and the climate and all this kind of stuff. So, I’m going to appeal to David Bentley Hart, if you don’t know who David is, how many do not know who David Bentley Hart is?  Okay, David Bentley Hart is a theologian, and an Anglican, or an Eastern Orthodox theologian. He is very aggressive in his theology, and in his debating technique. He wrote a magnificent book about the tsunami, that he called Into the Sea or something like that. It’s fantastic. Anyway, he’s a really interesting guy. If you ever get to listen to him, he’ll use a lot of big words. And then you go, man, that guy’s really smart. All right next comes cosmos. cosmos. So, this is a postscript in the translation of the New Testament that he did. And he instead of just doing things with footnotes, did a whole thing in the back on different words that he translated and why.

Next comes [ko’smos] pronounced cosmos, which I have, for the most part, chosen not to translate in the traditional way as world but simply to transliterate it as the word cosmos. The effect is often perhaps a bit jarring. But while there are instances in the text where the word functions as an equivalent to [oi’koume’ne] pronounce oiko-umeni, which is the inhabited world of human beings. That’s what that Greek word means. So when we think about the world as a society or a culture, that the word is [oi’koume’ne], not [ko’smos]. But while it functions sometimes like that we inhabit a world of human beings it more frequently means the whole of the created order, the heavens no less than the Earth. Now, listen to this because this is, this is enormous if we get into trying to understand where it’s going. So it—[ko’smos] cosmos—more frequently means the whole of the created order—the heavens no less than the Earth. It certainly carries this latter meaning in some of the critical and occasionally unsettling ways in many of the verses in John’s Gospel, Paul’s letters, and elsewhere. It is good, for example, to be reminded that in the New Testament and in Paul’s theology, in particular, both slavery to death and sin, and final liberation from death in Divine glory are described as cosmic, not merely human realities. – David Bentley Hart NAS

Okay. Let’s read that one more time. Both slavery to death in sin and final liberation from death, in Divine glory are described as cosmic, not merely human reality. So, you can begin to see that the word speaks of something bigger than just the things that affect human beings.  They take in the whole of creation. Moreover, the word world as we use it today simply does not capture what is the most essential to the ancient concept of cosmos, a word that most literally means order or arrangement or even loveliness of design. For us, the world is either merely the physical reality of nature and society out there, or it is the human sphere, with all its attendant moral and historical contingencies. For the late antique cultures from which the New Testament came, the cosmos was quite literally a magnificently and terribly elaborate order of reality that comprehended nature, understood is the rational integrity organized by metaphysical principles. There’s some big words, the essential principles of the natural and the animal human condition, the flesh and soul, for instance, with all their miseries, the spiritual world, including the hierarchies of the Divine, the angelic and the demonic, the astral and Planetary heavens, understood as the changeless realm, at once physical and spiritual, as well as social, political, and the religious structure of authority and power, including the governments of human beings, of angels, of celestial demons, gods, terrestrial demons, and whatever other mysterious forces might be hiding behind nature’s visible forms. It is a vision of the whole of the things that is utterly unlike any, with which most of us are today familiar. And that simply does not correspond to any meaning of world, intuitively obvious to us, for the author of First Peter, or First John, for instance, to tell his readers to have nothing to do with the cosmos is to say something far more comprehensive, imponderable, and astonishing, then they could, and then they should avoid advice, or material longings, or that they should withdraw from society. So, it seemed better to me to risk the oddity of the expression than to risk losing sight of these truths. So okay, all I want to do, all I want to do is that pride deserves to be read to three more times, all I want to do is I want to sum up, that this word, Cosmos does not mean a small thing, it doesn’t mean a single aspect of human culture, it doesn’t mean a single aspect of creation. It literally means the divine design, an order that manifest in all the ways that manifest. So it’s literally everything, including and this is where it’s got to stretch your brain a little bit, because the problem with the way we look at the world using the framework of the world, is we see the world so quickly and so easily in a dualistic way, where there’s the world and then there’s something else more desirable, or people that love the world see the world is desirable, and they ignore the other things that are more important, like moral things or spiritual things like that. That is not what has been written about here. That is not wat Jesus came, was it say, that I came not to judge the cosmos, but to save it. So, if we’re going to understand it, this is what hit me like a ton of bricks this morning. I go, Oh my God, Lord. This is everything. The cosmos is everything except one thing. And if you’re in the cosmos, or you’re coming into the cosmos, you’re coming into everything. You’re coming into creation, which is frustrated. You’re coming into the glory of men; you’re coming into the depravity of man and mankind. You’re coming into the laws of nature. You’re coming into the machinations of time. That’s the cosmos. Okay. And all of reality equals the cosmos plus one thing. And we’ll get to that, hopefully. All right.  So, what I want you to say anything you can think about just about, with one exception, anything you can think about with one exception, time, space, material things, culture, humans, the accumulation of talent, the expression of creativity, or all everything. Just about anything you can think of is best to be thought of contained in this concept of the cosmos.

 

Nancy Coen 

I spent a whole lot of time in the cosmos. But I want to read this out of the passion, sir. Because I’ll make a comment about it. And then we’ll go to the next verse. I just wanted to do it while we were right here. Yeah, good. So, it says to believe in me, is also to believe in God who sent me. For when you look at me, you’re seeing the one who sent me, I have come into light to shine in this dark, dark world so that all who trusted me will no longer wander in darkness. If you hear my words, and refuse to follow them, I do not judge you. For I have not come to judge you, but to save you. So, if you look at it, according to the direct Greek translation, I’ve not come that I might judge the cod Cosmos that I might say, the cosmos. I think it was really interesting that in the passion, instead of the cosmos, it says I’ve not come to judge you. But I’ve come to save you. Yeah. Okay. So, the comment that I want to make, and this is just a thought, that maybe we can discuss later. Sure, deeper length is this, if every half everything that was created, was created for him, by him, through him, and lives in him, okay. And we really believe that everything in the cosmos lives in him, because all things that were created live in him than if he lives in us. What that likewise means is, everything that was ever created in the cosmos lives in us because it all lives in him. And he is in us. What that does is it increases our level of governmental authority over things that happen in the cosmos. So right now, there are things happening in the cosmos that blow my mind. And it’s because the Lord is just now opening up our level of understanding that all things that have ever been created live in him. And because he lives in us, they also live in us. So, when it discusses the expansion of the kingdom, which is continuously ongoing, it says, the kingdom shall be upon his shoulders, but his head is different than his shoulders, if we are his body, and he lives in us and all of that lives in us. And he is the head who gives the command. It’s the shoulders that bear the government. So yeah,

 

Larry McKnight 

I said, that’s good. That’s good, though. No, that’s pretty much in line with what I think we’ll get to. And as a matter of fact, I one of the thoughts I had before was that I don’t want tonight to try to I don’t know how to try to apply the concept of the kingdom because I’m going to make a very sort of exclusive case for the relationship to cosmos and why the thing, but I do not disagree with that. And I think that’s what’s being opened up, if we’ll understand it. So, you would agree I’m sure, Nancy, that then a small view of this, the world or just one culture or just people we don’t like or something like that, is totally not the way not what Jesus was talking about and living by. So yeah, okay, let’s see what’s next. So, what is it I read that the cosmos is big? So now we’re going to review with the cosmos in mind some of what we looked at in the last three weeks. So, this little edit there in the middle, I just pulled that I put in what they’ve been hard translated it into the numeric standard. That’s what that means. So now before the feasts of the Passover, Jesus knowing that is our had come that he would pass from this Cosmos to the Father. All right, I just want you to remember that phrase, Jesus is going to pass from the cosmos to the Father. So, where’s Jesus coming from and passing out from the cosmos, right? The cosmos, what’s the cosmos, cosmos is everything. It’s all the created order of things as the bigness as humanity sort of stuck in, where’s he going? He’s going to the Father. And one thing. So, where’s Jesus going? To the father, all right. He loved them, oh, and having loved his own in the cosmos. Now, this is interesting because I went back and checked the Greek. I usually like the way New American Standard tries to wrestle through stuff but insert some stuff in here who were in the cosmos is, I can understand it, but it’s a stretch of the jerky language that is in the Gospel. The jerky language is represented very specifically by what he says, having loved his own in the cosmos. He wasn’t placing us in the cosmos, in that line. It says that, in the cosmos, He loved us. He was leaving the cosmos. But before when he was in the cosmos, He loved us. So, it’s not a positional statement, leaving the disciples in the cosmos or putting them in a cosmos. It’s saying that having loved his own in the cosmos, he loved them to the end. Do you see what I’m saying? So, in other words, if you read it the way a lot of the translations do it, the emphasis is that Jesus is going away and leaving. Now there’s other verses that talk about that. But that’s not what this says. What this says is that while I was in the cosmos, I loved you guys. In the cosmos.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

You may cover this soon. But that sounds like the cosmos is outside of God.

 

Larry McKnight 

I am going to cover it soon. So, this is one of the other reviews. Basically, truly, truly I say to you here receives whoever send I send receives me, and he who receives me, receives him who sent me. Alright, I want you to read this backwards. Okay, this is part of the review, because this is what we’re talking about. He who receives me receives him who sent me, who is me in that verse, Jesus, who is the one who sent him, Father, or God. So, who is the person being the people being referred to as he who receives whomever I send? That’s back to your point, Nancy. That’s us. As the Father has sent me, so send I You, Jesus says, after the resurrection, just believe it. That’s all I’m asking you to do right now, just in context of all this stuff, believe it. Alright, so where was Jesus sent? He was sent into the cosmos, not to judge the cosmos, but so that he could save the cosmos. And where does he send us? It’s in the cosmos. Okay. All right. So, this is now chapter 14, beginning of the chapter, “In my father’s house, there are many places of rest. What I otherwise have told you that I am going to make a place ready for you. And if I go and make a place ready for you, I am coming again. And we’ll take you along with me. So that where I am, you might be also.” All right. Where did Jesus go? He went to the Father, Father’s house, but he, he said, I’m going to the Father, you know, all right.  So, if he is coming again, he’s coming to the cosmos again. Where we still are, right? And he is going to take us along with him. So that where I am, you might be also. So, without overstretching this, Jesus went to the Father. And he’s coming, and we’re going to go with him to the Father. Okay, so that’s all we can get out of that one right now. All right, John 14: 16, I shall entreat the father He will give you another advocate. Now this was where we, in the last few weeks, looked at this amazing union between the father and the son in the Holy Spirit, as the essence of eternal life. And that’s again, remember the question we started with was, what is eternal life and why does it involve knowing both you Father and Jesus when you sent Jesus whom you sent? Okay, so this is part of it. And now the Holy Spirit comes in here trying again, to answer Ronnie’s question, where’s the spirit, that he may be with you through the ages, another advocate that he may be with you through the ages. The reason I like the way Hart does this is he links the coming of the Holy Spirit to being with us forever. If we were to examine the activity of God, during the marriage feast of the Lamb, we would find the advocate with the bride. With the people, we would find the father being the father, as depicted in the various parables about the wedding feast, and we would find Jesus being the groom. But God, the Holy Spirit would be there with the people. And that’s why you don’t see or read a lot about the Holy Spirit in a lot of these situations. Because the Holy Spirit is within and in, okay, that he may be with you through the ages, the Spirit of Truth. Now back to the cosmos, which the cosmos cannot receive, because it neither sees nor knows it. Don’t be too bummed out that he used it as a pronoun for the Holy Spirit. He’s just being literal. It is it is a neuter thing. Okay. He believes in the spirit of being God, the Spirit of Truth, which the cosmos cannot receive, because it neither sees nor knows it. So that gives us a clue about the cosmos. The Cosmos relates to itself through the senses of seeing and knowing, understanding, rationale, all that kind of stuff. That’s why you can see the cosmos with a telescope. But you can have a really big telescope, and you can’t see the Holy Spirit. Because it relates to the different way. Okay, it makes sense. I’m not trying to go into depth here, which can get to the main point. All right, John 14. Just a little while, and the cosmos. Now back to your question, Richard, do you see how the consistency of this idea of the cosmos being everything begins to simplify the what’s the world question? Or what’s the cosmos question that’s on? Yeah, just kind of keep that in mind. Just a little while and the cosmos no longer sees me. You see me, because I live, you too will live. And on that day, you will know and then, you know what that goes on that day, you’ll know that I’m in my father, you’re in me, and I’m in you. And I just save space on the screen then. Right? Because I mean, we all knew it. But. So, think about what the cosmos is that isn’t Seeing no longer seeing Jesus, Pharisees, the Romans, managing the confusion that that culture had when Jesus was alive, but gone. How about the ruling principalities and powers that for years had subdivided the earth by permission of Yahweh. Somehow, I have no idea why he allowed that happen. But they subdivided the earth, and they dominated these various cultures, manifesting their peculiar natures, over this culture, that culture, this culture, that culture, well, God seemed to withdraw and establish his relationship and the culture he desired with Israel. Now, suddenly, things have changed a little bit. Because they don’t see Jesus anymore. They don’t know what’s going on. But on that day, you will know that puts us in a position to transcend the cosmos, in our vision.  And that’s where it starts getting. Like, no matter how you try, you can’t say it big enough, no matter how you try to believe it. Okay? How about this one piece I leave to you, my peace, I give it to you, I give it to you notice the cosmos gives. So, the cosmos has the capability of giving you stuff like peace. Right? But Jesus doesn’t give that. And he says, don’t let your heart be troubled. Neither Let it be afraid. And then it goes on to say, for I’m going to the Father, what this Don’t let your heartbeat troubled about as he said, you know, I’m going to father and you’re all grieving over that. But the reality is, you shouldn’t let your heart be troubled because the father is bigger than me better than me. And I’m going to him, so you should rejoice. So, where’s he going? To the Father. Verse 31 but so that the cosmos may know, this is like my favorite verse that I’ve used heart four out of this stuff. So, the cosmos may know that I love the Father. And that just as the Father has commanded me, so I do arise, and let’s go from here. All right. Let me see if I can tell you why I’m kind of juiced up about this one of all the things that you think the cosmos might ought to know. With all the darkness there is in the world. If you think of all the frustration of creation is subject to and it’s waiting for the revelation of the glory. You know, the sons of God and you ask a question about glory two weeks ago, and I really didn’t have a good answer to that this is at least a part of that answer. You think about all the cultures of men where injustice reigns, where confusion reigns where abuse reigns, you think about all the cures, for instance, that are all over the world, in the canopy and the rain forest, in plants in the desert, and minerals that are in the water, all these things are just waiting there, and only a tiny fraction of them have ever been mined or harvested or understood. And so, because of that lack of knowledge about these things that God has sewn into creation, from the beginning, people are dying, people are suffering, all these things that Cosmos could No, you know, it’s the most important thing in all the world. And in all the cosmos. It’s to know that Jesus loves his father. And we need to think about that just for a second. That is the singular, most important revelation to the cosmos. That Jesus loves his father. Now think about a natural expression of that that is so true in this world, and a lot of people are trying to deny it. And again because the cosmos is kind of screwed up. How big a difference does it make in a child’s life? If dad loves mom, and mom loves dad, there’s nothing more important, not really socially. I mean, you can take a family that has all kinds of resources, all kinds of wealth, all kinds of opportunity. And if dad and mom don’t, those kids are not functionally better off in the long run than a than a family that lives in third world poverty, where they adore one another. There’s just something incredibly powerful. And that’s just a reflection in the cosmos, of this reality that is beyond the cosmos. So that to me is just an extraordinary revelation. So that the cosmos may know that I love the Father. Okay. John chapter 15, these things I command, so that was 14, review these things I commanded you so that you love one another. If the cosmos hates you, you know that hated me before you. If you were of the cosmos, the cosmos would have loved its own. But since you are not of the cosmos, the cosmos therefore hated you. For some reason, as confusing as this still is, it seems simpler thinking of it this way, with that definition of Cosmos than the world. Because I was struggling with you, Richard, when I was thinking about using the term world, what did that mean? the religious world did that mean the social world did that mean the financial world does that mean the natural world no means everything. It means everything because suddenly, as I think about an interpret all these words with the cosmos, meaning everything now I’m starting to feel the weight of the broken cosmos, the weight of the Fallen cosmos, and this is where I start getting in trouble because it’s all the cosmos fallen. You know, you think there would be some places in heaven or something like this. They’re not messed up yet, or whatever. But the more I think about it, the more I think that it is more accurate, and is more regulatory, and is healthier, to think about the cosmos as being under the influence of the things which we associate with the fall or with brokenness or with lost us things which otherwise might, ought to be judged. But Jesus has determined being sent from the Father to save. So, does that mean that Jesus is going to save the flora and fauna? Yeah. All creation? Does it mean that Jesus is going to save heaven? bikers? Yeah, he’ll say bikers will say bikes. Oh, spiders. Don’t like spiders and steaks. But I think he does. And he will. Alright, so I don’t I don’t really want an answer. And I hope no one comes to the mic over this. But how often do you think that God that Jesus has been sent not to judge but to save heaven? As soon as I thought about that, that delivered me from the temptation to think that heaven was different than the world. Now I know Heaven is different than the world in some ways, and especially with us being able to like do a sentence now and go to heaven and heaven on earth and all this kind of stuff. But there is a truth here that is bigger than the dualism which would lead us to think if we could just get to heaven, wow, everything’s going to be okay. No heavens part of the cosmos. And Jesus came not to judge it, but to save it. And quite honestly, that explains a lot of start thinking those terms. That’s why Satan can walk around during Job’s days looking around, and then cause a bunch of trouble, right under God’s nose. And I don’t know how to describe that. Or how about it? How about all these heavenly councils scattered out? You know, inflicting their ways on cultures and nations. But Jesus came to save and save. Okay, see, this expands. I didn’t come to judge it. I came to save it. So, salvation isn’t just about getting somebody to confess their sins might be important to do at some point time. Salvation is that bigger concept? It’s that saved restore delivered kit made whole. is heaven not made whole? Already? Apparently not. Yeah, yeah. What about that? What about being able to sweep out of the sky, this guy stars with his tail. He’s even in here. In just a minute. That fellow we just talked about. These things, I command you that you love one another. If the cosmos he you know that hated me before you if you were the cosmos, the cosmos would have loved its own. Since you’re not at the cosmos, the cosmos therefore hates you. Something Richard has transformed these men he’s speaking to. And given them reference points outside the cosmos. And that’s why the cosmos hates him. Now, if we think that the cosmos is this culture, that culture, this religion, that religion, this science, that science, we’re going to be confused the rest of our life. But if we surrender to the idea that the cosmos means the whole order of everything, except one thing, then we’re going to see, oh, you’re talking about something special here, okay. And when he the Holy Spirit comes; he will prove the cosmos wrong. It’ll prove the cosmos wrong. The Holy Spirit’s not out there just trying to convict the financial world that it’s wrong. Or the scientific world, or the religious world, or the social world, he will prove the cosmos wrong concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment. Why? concerning sin, because they don’t have faith in me, Jesus says, if everything is suffering, and needing not to be probably in a position to be judged, but not being judged, but being saved by Jesus, that’s what this is talking about. And one of the reasons is because they don’t believe in, they don’t have putting faith in Jesus. We’re not they’re not the cosmos is not Okay, next one, concerning sim because they don’t have faith in me concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer see me where she’s just going. Okay. And concerning judgment, because they are kind of this Cosmos has been judged the prince is what that word means of this cosmos. Okay, now, think about this. If that, let’s say that that Prince that we’re talking about is the one in the scripture called the set time, the accuser. Okay. We have all kinds of trouble with our theology, especially as charismatics, in spiritual warfare and all kind of stuff, by assigning to that, being spoken about here spoken later in the chapter, spoken in Revelation as falling and so on. We have trouble because it forces us to then try to divvy up the nature of the warfare and the nature of the conflict and pick one thing in the cosmos against another thing in the cosmos. And I’m not saying the cosmos isn’t capable of battling it out with itself, because it is wars, rumors of wars, Tempest, disasters, destruction, all these things are cosmos. But he, it is not really the issue. It’s the brokenness of the cosmos. And it’s the usurping of that brokenness that has been taken on by this one. And we don’t understand that the prince of the cosmos has already been cast down and judged. Okay, right.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

There’s a scripture says the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbeliever. You think that might be? That’s the cosmos?

 

Larry McKnight 

Yeah, that’s it. I think so. Absolutely. I think absolutely. And I think that act explains a lot of what goes on in the cosmos.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

So, we might explore what an unbeliever is based on that.

 

Larry McKnight 

And we might explore what blindness is, what is it we don’t see? We probably don’t see the value of one another. We don’t see the truth of science. We don’t see the truth of Faith. We don’t see the truth of the supernatural, all this kind of stuff. But yes, I’ll have to be for another night. Okay, now here’s an interesting one, and I don’t even. This just is interesting because I’m a Greek nerd. For the Father, the Word is Potter, himself loves you because you have cherished me. And here’s what the disciples did. You had faith that I come forth from God, and I go from God? And this guy is a straightforward translator. So, I said from God?  And I dug up the Greek, and for sure, it says Theo, not Potter are not any of the Father words. So, it literally was written here. For the Father Himself loves you because you have cherished me and had faith that I come forth from God. Now Jesus, speaking of himself says, I came forth from the Father Patras and have come into the cosmos. So, in the act of coming from someplace into the cosmos, Jesus was sent by the Father. But what the guys believed that liberated them is that he came from Theo’s. God, that’ll play in just a second, I came forth from the Father and have come into the cosmos, I am leaving the cosmos again, and am going to the Father. All right. I don’t have time to teach on this. But I got all excited about it. Because what it meant to me is that the distinction between the Father and the Son allows us to see God’s plan, and choose the words very carefully the distinction, and the roles of the Father and the Son in the sending and coming and honoring and loving allows us to see God, Jehovah Elohim, at work. And so, this coming and going and being sent by the father in the spirit, we get to believe that Jesus that God is redeeming the cosmos. God is redeeming the cosmos. Now, if God is redeeming the cosmos, I can’t go too deep into this right now. But that should make us question. How small an outcome in that redemptive plan that God is willing to accept?  Yeah, kind of. So we’re not, we’re not just talking about Jesus being given an assignment to overcome a mess that Adam made, because that could be fairly local in its, but if you’re thinking in terms of coming to save the cosmos, and coming from God, as God sent by the father as the Word made flesh, then you have to stick the scope out bigger, you have to at least entertain the possibility that the intention of God in Christ is to save the cosmos. Now, that’s a heady thought, because it challenges narrow local salvation objectives, local redemptive objectives. But I will warn you that the Bible expressly says exactly that. And I’ll show you that in just a moment.

 

Richard Kramer

So, with the thing with Adam and Eve, did it was it? Were we looking at that as local or did what they did was more cosmic or was not cosmos?

 

Larry McKnight 

Cosmic? Well, first, they weren’t the only players. Well, when you think about it, and this is an answer, totally off the top of my head. They weren’t the only players. There was a snaky thing there, there were angels, they’re ready, all ready, to guard things to do things to send them out. I think what we’re looking at is a cosmic event, a Cosmos event, that creation was a Cosmos event. In other words, what was created? What does the scripture say? In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That’s all there is that was created. It eventually got, I mean, it was populated. It had angels in it had animals in it as microbiology stuff in it and bugs and things. I don’t fully understand all that stuff. Mankind is in the center of that, but they’re in the center of the cosmos. And the cosmos has chaos and some parts of it that need development, and it has gifts and all this kind of stuff. So anyway, all I’m saying I’m not saying that thinking of that. Cause of the world is the cosmos in the proper context is going to eliminate all confusion. But it does make it more interesting confusion. All right, so what I’m saying about this, though, is there’s an interesting play of words there that I think is significant, that Jesus says, I came from the Father. And you can believe now that that I came from God, that I came from God. And then remember what Jesus said He came for not to judge the cosmos, but to save it. Alright, so he’s leaving the cosmos again, and he’s going back to the Father.  Now, John 17 of the hours come glorify Your son, that the Son may glorify you, even as you gave him authority over all flesh, that to all whom you have given him. Okay, to continue the thought from the last verse. If we’re to be honest, we have to consider what all means about authority, and what all means about being given. We don’t have to come to conclusion about it yet. We don’t have to explain how if we come to a conclusion, all means all. But that’s what it says, All right. All you have given him he may give eternal life. This is eternal life, that they may know you. The only true God. Now Who’s he talking about them saying about the father, right? That they may know you father, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent? I just keep that in mind. I have manifest your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours and you gave them to me. I don’t see Greg tonight, but that verse struck him last time.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

The prior screen you had the difference between father and Theo’s or Petro? Do we know that the only true God is that? Yeah, it’s the other one, not the Theo’s. Oh, so that’s the most Yeah.

 

Larry McKnight 

But you know, what I’m saying is that Jesus is praying to the Father, right. Their father, right. Father?

 

Ronnie Bincer 

I’m starting to develop a different version of the Trinity during all this, right now.

 

Larry McKnight 

But it’s getting excited. But yeah, so Jesus was speaking to the Father, which is why I say, Father, the only true God, you the only true God. So, the you he was referring to as the Father, but the only true God was God and Jesus Christ. So anyway, we’ll get to that. It’s confusing, I know. And all things that are minor, yours and yours are mine. And I have been glorified in them. All right, john, further on in 17. This is one of the world flares ups, I do not ask on behalf of these alone. But for those also who believe in me through their word that they may all be one, even as you father are in me, and I knew all right. So, we’re going to talk about the cosmos. This is this is part of Jesus coming to save the cosmos is that, that those of us that believe on the word of the apostles, the disciples, we may be one. And here’s the standard of our oneness. This is Jesus asking the father and certainly expecting this to be a reality, that they may be one, as we are one Father, you and me. They may all be one, even as you father are in me and I and you, you hear that reflected back in John 14:20. Father, though, in that day, you’ll know that I’m in the Father, and you’re in me, and I’m in you. Father, this is what I’m praying now that they may all be one. In other words, we could mystify that relationship and say, Okay, I’m in Jesus, he’s in me, we’re in the Father. That and I’m not that is what you were talking about, Nancy, that reality is what you were talking about earlier. And I’m not so when I say mystified, I’m not I’m not saying demean it or anything. What I’m saying is we can push it into a spiritual realm that doesn’t have any impact on our lives. But you can’t do that with this. Because Jesus is continuing that thought that revelation, he knows what the purpose of God is, because he is the purpose of God. He is the father since one he knows, and it is that we be one as they are one. That’s why a bigger view of Cosmos Richard is helpful to keep our faith hungry for the bigger reality, rather than just maybe latching on to this form of the world or that form of the world and feeling like we’ve cut some great thing by aligning ourselves with that. What is being asked and expected here is extraordinary. It’s huge. It’s all encompassing, and it’s worth living and dying for if we could ever get it in our hearts running.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

Hopefully, this is helpful and not hurtful. Okay, yeah. What I’m getting from this right now it seems to be pivotal in a way that I don’t quite grasp because I just am seeing it now. Yeah. Is that it’s like, there’s the Father, the Son and the spirit, which I’ve always understood to be God, that’s my understanding is when I threw in the name Trinity, just because it was a nice name. But then there’s also God, which seems to be different than the Father. Oh, it’s the same. It’s different and the same. It’s okay.

 

Larry McKnight 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

It’s like there’s the three parts, but they also were there’s the why the one

 

Larry McKnight 

or the three parts are the one that’s what I’m thinking. That’s a simplistic way for me to think about it. Now. The three parts are the one

 

Ronnie Bincer 

because that the house is different than the Patras.

 

Larry McKnight 

Yeah, yeah. And it’s different than the wheels, which is son. Yeah. Or the or the? Yes, Vicki? Yeah, you guys just yell if you have one. We got sound up. Zoomers, as we’re talking to you, does yell if you got a question. All right. Let me I’m almost done here though. Because we’re about at the end of the thing. I mean, at the end of the review, now, okay, understand this, if we think about this wrong, the cosmos will be cast as a bad guy because it’s broken. It has all kinds of crazy stuff in it. But the whole reason for the plan of God, sent by the father in Jesus, then sent by Jesus and the father in the in the person of the Spirit, then sent by the Spirit, in the person of you and me. The whole reason is so that the cosmos can believe they use me. So, the cosmos now needs to know two things. It needs to know that Jesus loves the heck out of his father. And it needs to know that the Father, love the cosmos enough to send a son.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

Restoration of all things.

 

Larry McKnight 

Yeah, you must consider that this speaks to that. You must consider that this is it. And you first, don’t start with the outcome and try to figure out how it’s going to happen. Start with the heart of God. Has God taken actions to redeem the cosmos? Yes. If we’ll think about it, as the cosmos, and then questions that you get ridiculed for bringing up and polite evangelical company, you can get back and say, don’t be stupid. Of course, it’s included in that. That’s what Cosmos means. You know, I’m saying like when somebody says, you think a fallen angel will be redeemed? Well, I don’t know how to explain that. And I’m not trying to make a doctrine of it. But what I’m saying is, in some ways, how can they not? How can they not? Because what would be the success of this program that God conceived of and said his son, and the son said, Yes, I’m coming in the spirit is here. How could it not? We have to think about that. And then if you can begin to think about that, then your irritating Uncle Joe has a lot more chance of fitting into your theology of redemption than he did before. You have an Uncle Joe? That was not. I wasn’t thinking of Uncle Joe. Okay. All right. And your name I have made known to them, and we’ll make known to them. Alright, so what I emphasized last week before thinking about the cosmos in this way, is that Jesus, and this is not an original thought extra Krueger said this and it attached to me. Jesus has taken responsibility to make God’s name the Father’s name known to the disciples, and he is saying he’s, he’s going to make it known does. In other words, he’s taken that responsibility. This isn’t. It’s not just for us to try to puzzle out, Jesus died and rose again and is seated at the right hand of the Father and lives in us and is sending the holy sent the Holy Spirit and is sending you an AI so that the name can be made known to us. And then he goes to say, an AI in them. That’s where your point started. And it’s inescapable. We cannot get away from that. So, anything that Jesus is, is in us anything that Jesus controls is in us. Anything that Jesus can do is in us, and we have to deal with it. And just because we don’t recognize it, and we’re not used to it isn’t an excuse to call him a liar. Say, I believe you, but help my unbelief. But let’s at least wrestle with it. All right.  So, this is our review from before Jesus was and is radically loved by his father because they’re one that’s easy to remember the second, the Father has sent Jesus to us and Jesus came to reveal one love for us, God’s love. And I made the point last week that God doesn’t have different loves for different people. There’s no need for him to have it. There’s nothing in the scripture that says he has one love for this one went for that. He just has a lot. He loved. He is love, okay. It’s part of being his essence. every encounter with Jesus is an encounter with our father because there one Father’s love for us is entangled with his love for Jesus. Now, this is important to remember. God loves us. Because he loves Jesus, and he loves us with Philip he loves Jesus with, and the scripture even says here. Earlier in john, it says that because you have cherished me because you have loved me. Father loves you. I used to think, well, that’s a rip off. It’s conditional mean, if I don’t love Jesus, you don’t love me. I don’t think about that way anymore. Because that that’s like a stupid idiot’s way to think that’s thinking only from my perspective, from your perspective. You go, look, he’s loving my son. I love you, Jason. I love you, Diane, because you cherish my son, a father, I have the right to do that. That makes him understandable. That means his loves not some cold thing. Like a you know, like I used to hear when I was a Baptist. Well, God loved him, but he doesn’t like you. I think he likes me. I think he likes you. It’s okay for him to like us. Because we love his son. And what if we don’t love his son? Well, there’s a lot of stuff going on here to suck the cosmos into the place where, you know, it’s kind of like Dan always says, If you knew me the way Jesus knows me, you love me like he does. And if you knew Jesus, the way the father does, you’d love the Father the way Jesus does. Here’s the big one. Now, I couldn’t shorten this I tried. Jesus union with his father is the source of, and the other to the cosmos. So, let me explain. Briefly, if we understand, and it is an accurate use of the word, that the cosmos is every created thing and all those orders, there’s only one other thing. And that is the union between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, that is God.  All right, I’ll say it again. If the cosmos is everything, every created thing, every created thing, then the only thing outside the cosmos, is the one uncreated thing. And the one uncreated thing is God. But that’s too vague a term. Not that it’s bad. But it’s too vague a term to interact with. You can only worship God from a fire, put a statue up in the middle of Corinth that says to the unknown God. But Jesus has shown us more of that. He showed us who Yahweh was, as opposed to all the other Elohim that were out there. He showed us who the spirit was, he showed us what the father thinks and how he acts. He came from God. That’s what we believe. But he revealed the Father and the Son and the Spirit. And I don’t fully know, I don’t Ronnie, I don’t know exactly that. But I know this. I know, like, the Lord’s been working with me on this propensity, I have to over split him up and think only in terms of the persons of the Trinity. So, I’ve been going back and forth with him. And this last week, and I think you guys are like this, this last week. He talked to me about what we studied a long time ago if you were here enjoy a long time ago when we went to Genesis. And we got to the place where we did the first part of the creation story in Genesis one and it was Elohim did this and led to this, but in the second part, to Whoville into this Jehovah or Yahweh, or into this. And I remember studying and remember I call that Rabbi guy, and I asked him, and he said, Well, that’s the like, the National Name of God, that’s the name of God, and I go, well, who’s God with a name? That would be Yeshua, or Jesus. And so, for better or worse, this is where I’m at on the Trinity right now, is that Jesus union with the Father, helps us understand the nature of the God from whom this redemptive plan came, and it’s the plan that’s been foreshadowed. from everything from the flood forward, Abraham, Israel, Moses, all that stuff, but he’s the other two, the concept their union. So, when we’re being drawn into something out of the cosmos, there’s only one place to be drawn into the union between the father and the son in the spirit. That’s where we transcend the cosmos. And that’s where then we can be sent back to the cosmos. Because we are in the union between the father and the son in the spirit. We are in Jehovah Elohim. He’s not distant, like Elohim would be by himself. He is. He’s okay. The knowledge and the experience of the glory of that union. So, this is just a quick catch up on the glory. Richard, Jesus said, Father, Grant me that glory that I had with you. The glory of Jehovah. Elohim is the love dynamic between the Father, the Son in the spirit, that’s the glory, that’s what shines about God is the love between the Father and the Son and the Son of the Father. I think. So, the knowledge and the experience of the glory that that union through faith in Jesus is the redemption of the cosmos, it is eternal life. And it is what Jesus has dragged us into, according to john 12. If I’m lifted up, I will drag on into me. And that is why he is saying it. And it only sounds religious and mysterious. Because we won’t accept the plain language of it. In that day, you will know that I am in my Father, you are in me and I am in you. And he goes just before that, he said, I’ll ask the Father, he’s going to send you a helper. And he’s going to be with you, and in you forever. And then Jesus says this cute little phrase. I won’t leave you an orphan. I’ll come to you. After talking about the spirit, so do you see what I’m talking about? Alright, so that’s redemption.

 

Ronnie Bincer 

So last week when the world was different. We thought that or I understood that God created stuff from within him. In other words, like, he said, let there be light. Yeah, light. Yeah. Are we now considering that the cosmos was not created from within the God? Or that it was created from within God? And then it got messed up?

 

Larry McKnight 

If the probably the latter, probably the latter? Yeah. Probably the latter because I don’t really know how to wrestle with this yet. This is a little bit bigger than my normal head. Okay, is that? Okay? So, I asked some questions. Here’s one of them. What does the union of the Father and Jesus create room for or make space? For c? That was a good, prescient question about what you’re asking? I think a simple answer to that we’re going to talk about when breakout or when you get to get in groups, a simple answer to that is it made room for the cosmos? I, in other words, I don’t think I know if God were not as he has been revealed, in Jesus, to be Father, Son, and spirit where there are interactions possible. And, and, and movement in those interactions, I don’t know how it would have been possible for him to create something that he could embrace, and it not be totally other and outside of him. But because there’s room between the interaction of the Father and the Son, in that room is called obedience. It’s called love. It’s called worship, it’s called honor. That’s why the scripture can say something bizarre about God becoming man, it can say that he learned obedience, that he grew in wisdom and stature and knowledge about God. What Jesus and the father share as a dynamic life in the spirit, makes room for you and I to be invited into that, or to be dragged into it, to be brought into it. So, we are not destined, nor is the cosmos to live outside God outside some kind of monolithic God where he is above but, you know, in. These aren’t easy thoughts. I mean, if you go back to Aristotle and Socrates and Plato this This is where the idea of God being transcendent, and just shining on us came from. Because it was the best you could figure out if you have a God who is a completely unapproachable, independent, non-relational beam. But he was never that. I mean, he was never that. He came looking for Adam. He chose Noah and his family. He met with Moses, like a man meets with a friend. He called Abraham his friend. He called David, a man after his own heart and the apple of his eye. He’s relational to the core, because he’s relational. To the core. He’s a Father, Son, and a probably a she spirit. He said, Mother, I think so. Anyway, alright, so there’s one of the questions, what does the union it makes space for you? It makes space for the creation of the cosmos; it makes space for the redemption of things that go awry. Why is eternal life simply inclusion and participation in the union of the Father and the Son? To me? This is a question that stemmed from our first question, why is it both? Why is eternal life both knowing you? Father, the only true God and Jesus whom you said, Well, it’s because eternal life. And when you think about it in these terms, what else could eternal life be except the life that was eternal? And where was the life that was eternal, seen and expressed? Before it was expressed anywhere else? It was expressed in God. I think between the Father Son, Holy Spirit, the union, that is Jehovah Elohim. The son the spirit. That’s eternal life. It’s very simple. I’ve got it. Come get it. That’s the story of redemption, actually. And then we go, we don’t want to, and he goes, Okay, I’ll come get you. I mean, that’s pretty much the gospel right there. In simple terms. What is the cosmos? What’s wrong with it? And what is it? What is the cosmos destined for? Yeah. And what else is there beside the cosmos? Okay. So, to force the issue, this has taken a while I’m sorry, to force the issue. I am, I am proposing that we think about just like Nancy said about this idea of every minute, I’m just asking you to think about it. If in fact, we do justice to the word cosmos, the way it’s used in the New Testament, and the way it’s used, particularly in here, the cosmos would represent everything except where it came from, which was the union between the Father Son, Holy Spirit, and the will of Jehovah Elohim himself, that will float through the interaction and created the cosmos and then interacted with the cosmos. With helping Adam name the animals and hunting them down when they were hiding in the bushes, and everything since. Okay. All right. One quick one.

 

Nancy Coen 

if we really understood the term Elohim it would help us, I think, settle a whole lot of those questions. Because there are many, many classifications of Elohim. And in one, in one case, it means judges, governors, rulers and magistrates. Okay. So, if God gave Adam dominion over all the years, as a governor, ruler, magistrate, that in his fall, everything that was created, fell with him. Okay, so the whole, the whole universe, in all the cosmos has been living in what I call a twisted counterfeit. But our purpose is to take the twisted counterfeit out of the darkness into the light, so that it can become the righteous real, which is what it was created to be in the first place. But I would like to do a study some time on the word Elohim. Because everything that was ever created lives in him, which means he’s outside of the thing that he created. And I just love that analogy.

 

Larry McKnight 

In closing, remember I mentioned that we can wrestle with this all we want, but we have to deal with the fact that it’s exactly what the scripture says. II Corinthians 5: 19, So that God was in the anointed reconciling the cosmos to himself. And he personalizes it, not counting their trespasses to them and placing in us the word of reconciliation, their work, therefore we are ambassadors, on the anointed to be half of such a kind, that God makes supplication through us for the sake of the anointed, we implore, be reconciled to God. For our sake, he made the one who knew no sin into sin, so that in him we might become God’s righteousness. reference is II Corinthians 5:19 – 20.  Here is a thought to take away with you.  And one of the most profound potential transforming thoughts here is, is in one serious thinking, you can deliver yourself from thinking that the world is this place, and Heaven is our destiny. And Heaven is the end, that is way wrong, and it is way too small. And the reason, the reason that I choose to say that the only thing outside the cosmos, by the definition of the word cosmos is the union of the Father, Son in the spirit, that gives me a very precise definition now by saying that I’m not saying the cosmos is big, and that union is small. Because the opposite is true. That union can produce and sustaining and containing everything that is or ever will be, and a completely new and improved transformed version of all that is. So, it’s not, it’s not that it’s a smaller destination than the confusion of the whole cosmos. It is a more precise destination. It’s a destination that everybody is called to. And we’re all in we can visualize it, because God has taken great pains to give us the cert the Messiah, Jesus to see and to know, and to laugh with and to interact with. And, and he’s given us stories of him kneeling and writing in the dust. Rather than judging and condemning an adulterous woman, he’s giving us stories of him. revealing something of his union with the Father. That was more powerful than the waves of the sea during a storm. It changes the way everything can be. So that’s our destination. That’s who we were made for. That’s who we are drawn into. That is where we are going.  (Prayer) Father, thank you for sending Jesus, Jesus, thank you for responding. Thank you for coming. Thank you for loving us. Thank you for embracing us, thank you for becoming humanity, particularly, on the covenant side of things. Thank you that the covenant is not vulnerable to my covenant keeping capabilities but is secure in yours. And thank you, Holy Spirit, that you too, are one cent. And thank you, Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit. Thank you, God, that you have sent us. And Lord, we’ve tried to work that out. But our understanding of what we are and what we are involved in, and who we are has been criminally small in the past, because we’ve reduced the gospel from the saving of the cosmos, to the saving of a few people who are willing to acknowledge how creepy they’ve acted their whole life. And so, Father, would you rekindle in us a shared vision of your purpose, the reason you sent Jesus, not to judge the cosmos, to save, and that we are a part of that, that you have called us, and you have implanted yourself in us. And finally, you have loved us, and are loving us with the exact same love. That is eternal life, the love between you and your son in the spirit. I know I’m talking way over my head. And I’m asking for stuff that is way bigger than I understand. But it says that if your word abides in us, and we abide to you, we can ask quite a while and you’ll give it to us. So that’s what I’m asking. You would turn our hearts around, and we would plug in and understand as much as possible, your purpose and redemption event.

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